The last few years have been a bit of a slog, with a high turnover of managers and a team troubling the wrong end of the table. The fact that Dave Jones was keeping Cardiff competitive in the Championship, while tasked with turning a healthy profit and losing his best players every year feels rather miraculous in contrast. He also remained in charge for six seasons, which is almost unheard of these days. It was a delight to reminisce about this period with him because it remains a time that is remembered very fondly.
It’s been 12, nearly 13 years since you left Cardiff and I don’t think a week goes by without someone fondly remembering your time at the club on social media. They’ve rarely played with as much flair since, so I thought it would be nice to reminisce with you about that period, but I also wanted you to know how fondly that era is remembered.
The first thing that leaps off the page is that you were in charge for six years and over 300 games. In contrast, Cardiff have had eight managers in the last six years. That sort of stability and continuity feels like a thing of the past. Was your position ever under threat during that time?
I got sacked in my first week! Sam Hamman sacked me because I refused to contact a club, I think it was Fulham, about a player we had no chance of signing. I had to explain the situation to Peter Ridsdale. Sam then apologised and said you’re my man because you won’t say yes all the time. Whether he was testing me or not, I don’t know. The first few months were like a game with him, but once we got over that, it was down to business. To try and build a football club, with £70m of debt and no players because we had to sell to survive.
In terms of the progressive way your teams always played, was it important to you to play attractive football and if so, was that by design and a factor in the players you targeted?
Whatever club I’ve been at, I’ve always put teams out to win and the way you win games is by scoring goals! It doesn’t take a genius to work out that you have to get good forwards into your club to score goals. That was my priority, but we lost some really good players when I first arrived because the club had to sell them. I knew that we were going to have to pick up waifs and strays in my first season, players that other clubs didn’t want and give them a platform to try and perform. We were trying to get the club into a situation where they didn’t have to worry about relegation.
Embed from Getty ImagesYou had a reputation as a great man-manager, bringing in players with difficult reputations and providing them a platform to thrive. I know you were operating in an area of the market where you had to take calculated risks, but were you also attracted to that challenge? I know you come from a background in care work, so I wondered if the possibility of reviving talent was a goal in itself. Fixing broken toys.
The players we brought in were talented, but for some reason, they had gone off the rails a bit, so I gave them a stage to perform on. If they wanted to resurrect their career, there was an opportunity for them. Whether it was by luck or design, the majority of them did well for the club. They set the club on the road to not just surviving in the league, but having a chance of winning something.
Where were you in your life and career when you joined Cardiff and what led to you joining?
I had just left Wolves, where I had four good years, but they wanted to go in a different direction. I got a call from Sam and Peter asking would I come down for a chat because they had just parted ways with their manager. A lot of people told me to stay away, but I think its always best to speak to people yourself. I knew it was a good club, they had just lost their way a little bit. It was a challenge for me as well as the club and sometimes you’re stupid enough to take on the challenge! I wanted to turn the club around, but when I arrived, I didn’t expect them to sell everyone that they could to keep the club afloat. I had more staff than players at one stage, but I saw it as a challenge.
You had Jason Koumas on loan in your first season and he was remarkable that year. He has mythical status in Wales because he was so enigmatic and when he finished playing, he essentially vanished. I know you’re both Scousers, so you had a shared background, but what was the key to maximising his talent?
Jason just had that knack of gliding past people and we saw that with Aaron Ramsey too. They don’t look quick, but they’re quick with the ball. With Jason, he was out of the team at West Brom and he was down in the dumps. It was just a case of having people believe in him and that works for players the majority of the time. It was nothing to do with us both being from Liverpool, it was just allowing him to strut his stuff and he certainly did that. He was magnificent and he’s a player that gets fans out of their seats. They say that players play for a manager, but they play for themselves. I used to challenge them to play to the best of their ability and if they didn’t, I moved them out and brought someone else in.
Embed from Getty ImagesA lot of the signings you made were freebies and they always tend to be a mixed bag, but when you had money, you always spent it very well and in your second year, you brought in Michael Chopra for £500k, Roger Johnson for £275k and Glenn Loovens for £250k. All of which were eventually sold for considerably more. Were they the result of good scouting, good contacts in the game or just knowing where to look?
It’s down to teamwork. Knowing the scouts and knowing people around the world that were always on the lookout for me. We knew Michael Chopra could score goals, so it was a case of finding him partners that could help him do that. We had players like Darren Purse and Riccardo Scimeca that were good pros, so you could have mavericks around them, and I do like a maverick. You need someone in the side that can unlock the door. If you take someone like Peter Whittingham, he was not everybody’s cup of tea. When he first came, people called him lazy, but when you looked at his stats, he had the most interceptions, not just in the team, but in the whole league. Like Stephen McPhail, they had that pass, they had the knowledge.
Chopra was brilliant for Cardiff, a true big game player and he came back and forth a few times. His troubles are well documented and Cardiff seemed to be his happy place. I’m sure you were a big factor in that. How did you find managing Michael and how aware were you of his issues at the time?
We kept him on a lead and controlled the situation. When Roy Keane wanted to buy him for Sunderland, we had to sell him because the money we were getting for him was fantastic. He didn’t want to go, but we had to keep the club afloat and that was the criteria for the club at the time. We had no choice in selling the likes of Roger Johnson and Glenn Loovens. I told Roy that you have to sit on Chops. He’s a lovely lad, but he did have a gambling problem. That’s what we did, but maybe Roy didn’t do that. Michael was a great player for the club though and the fans loved him to bits. I spoke to him not so long ago and I know he loved his time at Cardiff.
You then brought in Peter Whittingham for £350k in January and that may be the best money Cardiff has ever spent. Before every Cardiff game, they show the top three goals against that opponent and its almost always one of his. He was adored and his loss was devastating. How do you remember Peter?
Terry Burton always used to say that we were the most laid-back people he had ever seen. If we had a conversation, it was basically horizontal! We had lots of conversations, often about nothing really. I told Kenny Dalgleish to buy him when he was in charge at Liverpool, that’s how highly I thought of him. Not everyone took to him in the beginning at Cardiff, including some of the board members. They wanted him thundering into people, but that wasn’t him. I thought him and Stephen McPhail were the best midfielders in that division by a million miles.
Embed from Getty ImagesIn your third year, there was a change of approach in the transfer market, with the signings of a trio of veterans in Robbie Fowler, Jimmy-Floyd Hasselbaink and Trevor Sinclair. It was like a different kind of calculated gamble. Was that a case of capitalising on unique opportunities?
They were brought in to put the club on the map and, for ticket sales and to get the cub noticed. We started getting invitations from around the world because we had attracted these kinds of players. The only way we could bring them in was to sell them the dream, the new stadium and the training facilities we were trying to build because they wouldn’t have come for Ninian Park. It was always about what we could achieve and where we could go because we didn’t have any money! I never showed anyone around the ground until we moved into the new stadium.
Bringing in Robbie and Jimmy, I was signing two top strikers. They may have been past their best, but they raised the standards because they were top people as well as top players. There was a change in the type of players we wanted to bring in, but they still had to be cheap. We always tried to give the perception that we had more money than we actually did and that was needed to attract those kinds of players.
Cardiff made the FA Cup final that year, which was an amazing achievement. A few years later, they also played in the Carling Cup final, but in the decade or so since that, their record in the cup competitions has been terrible and the cups tend to be viewed as an inconvenience. What was your attitude towards the cup competitions?
Cardiff was not a football club that could say we were only interested in certain competitions, so we played to try and win every game. We didn’t just concentrate on the league, we concentrated on everything and the players wanted to play in cup games. Near the end of my time at Cardiff, the hardest part was picking 11 out of so many good players because five or six good players would miss out. When you get to that stage, the club is developing, but every time we got close to promotion, we had to sell our best players. If we had kept the likes of Roger Johnson and Glenn Loovens, we would have got promoted, but every window we had to raise £5m to keep the club afloat. That was disheartening when you knew how close you were.
Embed from Getty ImagesWhat are your memories of that run to the final? Leading the team out at Wembley must have been a very proud moment and a million miles away from your expectations when you joined.
Our cup final was the Barnsley game. Getting to the cup final because Portsmouth were flying at the time. They had some top players, but we were disappointed we lost. We came close, but for the fans, the semi-final was our cup final.
You made great use of the Scottish market during your time in charge and Ross McCormack joined the following summer for around £120k, which was remarkable business when you consider the career he went on to have and the transfer fees he would generate. He was excellent, especially in his first season, but he seemed to be another handful.
I never had any problems with any player during my time as manager at Cardiff. The only problem I ever had was if I didn’t pick them! I enjoyed working with every one of them. Chops, Jay and Ross were the three best strikers in the division. I always tried to play them all, but it was impossible. Ross was a good player, Kevin McNaughton came down, Gavin Rae, they all did well for the club. I believed in the Scottish market because I knew there were good players up there.
Cardiff played at Wembley four times in four years and those games are etched in the collective consciousness of Cardiff supporters and still discussed to this day. You were in charge for three of those and the two things that are still debated are whether Aaron Ramsey should have started the cup final and whether Ross McCormack should have replaced Jay Bothroyd in the play-off final. Are either of those regrets, with the benefit of hindsight?
Hindsight is a great thing to have, but unfortunately, I didn’t have it. We debated long and hard about whether to start Aaron, but he was a young boy in his first senior season. If we had started him and still lost, we would be having a different argument about starting such a young player. It was a decision made based purely on experience and with regards to the Blackpool game, Ross was having a bit of a tough time and wasn’t playing as well as he had been. It’s always easier to debate it after the event.
Embed from Getty ImagesJay Bothroyd was another inspired signing, for around £350k. I heard him interviewed recently and he was full of praise for your pivotal role in his career, giving him a platform at a time when he was out of favour and developing a difficult reputation. He said you were still in touch and play golf together occasionally. What was it like working with Jay and are you in touch with a lot of the people we’ve already mentioned, or is he something of an exception?
I’ve stayed in touch with a lot of players that I’ve managed. You build relationships and when you leave, they don’t just end. These people trusted me and I trusted them. Jay was a big character and was a player I thought very highly of. When we signed him, he was really down, but that was the type of player we would have to go for. Those that were not playing to the best of their ability.
In your final season in charge, you had assembled your most formidable team. Cardiff won 4-0 at Leeds and to this day, I think it’s probably the best performance I’ve ever seen from a Cardiff side. Chopra, Bothroyd, Whittingham, Craig Bellamy, Chris Burke. It felt like there was no way that side were not getting promoted. The accusation was that you lost control of the dressing room, that you had too many strong characters and had conceded too much power. How do you manage a dressing room with the likes of Bellamy, Chopra and Bothroyd? Do you feel like you may have over-indulged certain individuals?
I never lost a dressing room. It was where it had always been; next to the away dressing room and opposite the physio’s room! You never lose the dressing room, that doesn’t happen in football. No player at Cardiff had any greater power than anybody else. Every player in that dressing room knew, from myself and my staff, why they were there. We weren’t there to mess about, we were there to do a job. Having all the characters that we had is what makes a dressing room and the season we didn’t go up, we lost some players, Aaron and Craig, people lose form.
If only we were ever able to keep the same team for two seasons. Maybe Malky Mackay benefitted from that because the club probably realised eventually that you can’t keep selling your best players and still expect to win things and he had money to spend. I didn’t make the rules in the dressing room. I would guide them, but then the senior players control the dressing room to the standards I expect. It was a team effort and my staff were an extension of what I wanted.
When you were eventually dismissed, was it expected, or did it come as a surprise?
It was a bit of a surprise because I had just lost in the play-offs. Who gets rid of someone after making the play-offs?!
Embed from Getty ImagesWhat is your relationship like with the club now and was there ever an opportunity to return? I always thought that you would have been the ideal intermediary between the board and the team.
I would have loved to have done that role at the club and I do believe that is what they need. I know Vincent Tan has had some bad experiences in that respect, but I would have loved to have come back in that role. I still think I have a lot to offer because of the experience and knowledge I’ve gained from finding players. I would have loved the chance to finish what I started. I’ve half kept in touch with Vincent, but unfortunately I didn’t have much time with him. I know he didn’t make the decision to get rid of me, but maybe had I stayed another year, something like that might have happened, but I have no regrets.
I had a fantastic time at Cardiff, my wife and children loved the place. The only time I’ve been back to the club is when I’ve managed against them and for Whitts’ memorial. It was only right I attended that for his family. The wives and girlfriends were always an important part of the club because if they’re happy, the players are happy and vice versa. I’ve not gone back and watched a game though, but if they opportunity arose, I wouldn’t say no.
Are you still involved in football, in any capacity and what is your relationship with the game like now, after a successful career as both a player and a manager?
I’m still involved in the game and finding players for other people. I’m part of a group that have academies in Egypt and I help managers that are starting out in their careers, but I haven’t got boots on the grass. My role now is upstairs, but I wouldn’t be against returning to the grass either.