David Hughes, who has been based in the area for over 20 years, was Cardiff’s Head of Academy Coaching until recently receiving an offer too good to refuse from Manchester United. I got chance to speak to him about his time at the club and coaching in general.
You joined Cardiff as a player at a time when the club was in a period of acceleration. The couple of years you spent there coincided with the Leeds FA Cup game and the QPR play-off final. How did you find your time at the club?
I found it really tough because I was injured most of the time and when somebody pays money for you to play, you feel as if you’re letting people down and not contributing. I found it a little bit frustrating, but they had some really good players and characters around the club at that time. I’m from Wrexham, but I’ve stayed down here ever since signing for Cardiff. I would consider them to be my club now and we had season tickets during the Premier League season. I will always have an affinity for Cardiff and I first moved here in 2001.
What was the nature of the injuries you sustained?
I retired the year we won the play-off final because I had three knee injuries in the space of about 12 months. I had the first one and never really recovered from it. When you get up the day after training and its painful to walk up and down the stairs, it’s probably an indicator that this isn’t for you.
Did you start coaching to remain in the game?
I always felt that the coaches I worked with as a young player, around 16 or 17, had a big influence on me. Not necessarily in terms of tactics or understanding the game, but with regards to life skills and discipline, so that was always something I felt passionate about in coaching. I’m not really sure if I always felt that I wanted to be a coach, but I started working with the Under-12’s at Cardiff back in about 2005 and I could see how enjoyable it was to try and help shape young people while helping them understand what success in football might look like.
You’ve had a varied coaching role, progressing from the Welsh League into the Football League and returning to many of your former clubs, including Cardiff. You were appointed head of academy coaching in 2020. What was your remit and day-to-day role at the club?
I worked with James McCarthy at the time to effectively oversee the coaching and playing philosophy in the academy. At all academies, you’re looking to evolve and improve. That’s the nature of football. You’re never content to stand still and always looking for marginal gains. What that looks like at different ages and stages is really important.
What were your first impressions of the club’s academy set-up?
The first thing I thought was that there were some incredibly talented boys in the program. I always felt that from my time working at the FAW, that Cardiff City had talent and potential. That’s one of the reasons why the role was so appealing.
The pathway from the academy to the first-team has improved in recent years. Is that a result of changes made, a particularly good batch of players or a bit of both?
Neil Harris started trying to bring the academy closer to the first-team and deserves a great deal of credit for it. Mick McCarthy then came in with the same thoughts. One of the early conversations I had with Mick was when he asked me what I thought of the lads in the academy. I said I was the wrong person to ask because I was biased and that we had some really good talent. Mick’s response was “I’m glad you said that because so do I!” That process started with Neil, continued with Mick, before Steve and Tom Ramasut then played a huge part in that.
You never know how good young people can be until you give them an opportunity. If you look at the catchment area we’ve got, we’ve got only two rivals. There is no doubt in my mind that there is, always has and always will be talent in South Wales. I just think young people need an opportunity. Why do we find excuses to not give them a chance? You have conversations about players not having this or that and sometimes people look for excuses to not give young people an opportunity. That doesn’t sit right with me.
Whether through choice or necessity, the likes of Rubin Colwill, Mark Harris, Isaak Davies and Joel Bagan were promoted to the seniors and have thrived. Was there confidence within the academy that these players were ready and good enough to make the step up?
Absolutely. You speak to any of the staff that have worked with them and they’ll all say they had talent and potential. In your first 25-50 games, you’re going to make mistakes and between 50-75, they’re making less mistakes. If you work in an academy and you don’t believe in the people you’re working with, I would question why you’re working there. They’ve got to be good enough, show some technical expertise, game understanding, outstanding athleticism, a good mentality or attitude.
There has to be something, but you’re not going to get many cases where you get the full set. There might be something lacking somewhere, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be a professional footballer, in and around a first-team environment. The job of the staff is to reinforce their strengths, try and hide the weaknesses and get that individual some success. Whether that be Cardiff City’s first team or a career in non-league, further down the food chain. I always feel that we’re too dismissive in youth development. They’re kids, they need your help and don’t forget that someone gave you a chance.
Rubin and Mark both recently made the Wales World Cup squad, which is a great achievement for both, but also the club and the academy. There must be great pride in their progress and selection.
No doubt. There will be guys in the programme who have worked with Mark and Rubin for many, many years. They deserve great credit, along with their families, for the support they’ve given them. There’s immense pride for players that have come through Cardiff’s academy to now be performing on the world stage.
Having worked in many different youth set-ups, how does Cardiff’s academy compare?
There are individuals in the programme that can go on and have outstanding careers at Cardiff City. Coaching looks different at different stages, so we had developers at key stages. Guys who understand the content and detail that sits outside of the game. Understanding how children learn and develop. We’ve also got guys that have been there, seen it and done it. I believe to have a rounded programme, you have to have a bit of everything and that’s something we tried to reinforce. The academy is in a great place with Gavin Chesterfield, there is no doubt about that for me.
From the outside, there has long been concern that there is a lack of football expertise at board level at Cardiff. Is it difficult working at a club without a clear, upward chain of command?
Not for me. I found Steve Borley and Ken Choo really supportive of the academy. There is nobody more passionate about children from Cardiff representing the club than Steve. They were always really supportive of what we were trying to achieve and you’ve now got the Llanrumney base on the horizon. It will be huge for the academy to have their own identity and a place to call home. You have outstanding facilities at Leckwith and there is no better place for games on a Saturday morning. You’ve also got passionate staff that are on a journey to improve themselves. Outstanding people that who are not looking at footballers, they’re looking at kids with potential. They’re not footballers at any stage of the journey until they play in the first-team. There are some really good staff who care massively about the kids there.
You recently left the club to join Manchester United. Congratulations on the new role. Was it the case that it was an offer that was too good to refuse and what does your new position consist of?
I was made aware of a role and I was overwhelmed that they were even considering someone like me to work at a club like that. I was flattered. I now work with Mark Dempsey across the Under-18’s and Under-21’s. I’m passionate about coaching. I love getting my boots on and getting on the grass to try and help people improve. When you look at the history and culture of youth development, I think Manchester United stand out more than anyone.
You’ve worked with a variety of clubs already during your coaching career. Is that to some extent the nature of the industry, or is that driven by you and the need for a new challenge?
I think its due to certain circumstances at times. If I think back to my time at Watford, the club was bought in the first 12 months by the current owners and that saw change. I was then working part-time with the FAW and my contract was coming to an end when I was offered a role at Aston Villa. My youth team coach there as a player, Tony McAndrew, was probably the most influential person I’ve ever come across, so the opportunity to be a youth team coach at a club that helped shape my future was huge really. Then I got offered a job at Southampton after about three years at Villa.
I would never profess to be the best coach and I certainly don’t have all the answers to all the problems you encounter in youth development, but I am desperate to get better and improve. I want to learn more about development than I knew yesterday. I feel really fortunate because I’ve never actively looked to leave any of my roles and I wasn’t looking to leave Cardiff. My family live in Cardiff and are settled here, but Manchester United has a rich history in youth development and a belief in young people. Maybe I’m naïve because I’ve never worked in a first-team environment where you have to win the game to build momentum and a career, but there’s talented young individuals everywhere. They just need a chance and nobody will ever convince me differently.
If an academy are persuading young people to invest their time and effort to get better, alongside a club that are investing their time and resources in to the academy, I don’t understand why there wouldn’t be a pressure to produce a return on their investment. Whether that’s first-team minutes or selling a player. An academy manager’s role is significantly different to what I’ve always done previously. I loved it, found it really challenging and learned a great deal about myself, but there’s nothing better than putting your boots on and going out on the grass every morning.