James Rowberry was good enough to chat to me about his time at Newport County a couple of weeks after leaving the post. He’s clearly learned a lot and I have no doubt that he’ll benefit from the experience.
I’m sorry things didn’t work out at Newport County, but I really appreciate the opportunity to talk to you about it. Most managers would rather not discuss their time in charge after being dismissed and I can appreciate why, but it feels like your departure was largely amicable, with Darren Kelly, the Newport County sporting director very warm and kind in his appraisal of your time in charge. He is on record as saying you were ‘a fantastic guy, brilliant on the grass and had built up good relationships with the players,’ but conceded that it’s ultimately a results business.
It hurts when you lose your job, whether you’re a football manager or if you work in Sainsburys. I know it’s a results business, but you always want more time as a manager to get it right. That’s the nature of the beast. I had a great relationship with my chairman Gavin Foxall and general manager Nigel Stephenson, especially Gavin who is basically a volunteer because he doesn’t get paid, like the rest of the board. It was difficult, but we all learn, move on and want the best for each other.
To start at the beginning, when the vacancy became available, did you see it as the perfect opportunity? I know that Chris Coleman has said in the past that he wouldn’t want to manage Swansea because it’s so close to home. Did that thought cross your mind?
John Relish was the manager of Newport when my dad played and he can’t remember saying this, but he once said ‘never manage the club where you’re from.’ I get it because when it’s great, it’s great, but when it’s not going so well, it’s not so great! Newport is a small club, but it does become intense when you’re living there. I knew that when I signed up for it and I don’t regret it for one minute. It was part of my journey and I’ll always look back fondly.
My mate Wayne Hatswell was the caretaker at the time and we spoke when I took the position. Newport has always had a solid base and what we wanted to do was develop the attacking prowess, which is what we did, especially in the first year when we were the second highest scorers in the division. We just conceded too many goals. Ollie Cooper was with us last year, he was fantastic and scored a goal in the derby the other day. We also had Finn Azaz, Dom Telford, Jake Cain and Rob Street, so we’re proud of the players we developed, but ultimately it’s the league position that counts and that’s football.
I knew the job would be the perfect start for me because it’s my hometown club. Both my grandfather and my dad have represented the club. I had been here previously, playing in and coaching the youth team, then the first-team, so I’ve always had a strong connection with the club. I had 52 games and every one was a learning curve, but I’m proud of what we did because we ended up with a 40% win record and that’s not bad.
You’ve had substantial coaching experience, but this was your first managerial job. Was it initially daunting being the main man, having to shoulder all the responsibility and have all the answers, or did that come naturally? Were you apprehensive about that responsibility because I guess you never know how you’ll fare until you’re actually in that situation.
Scott, I loved it. Whether you’re given the responsibility of a coaching session at Cardiff or picking the team at Newport, it was something that I thrived on and you miss that sort of pressure. To be able to show your best and be your best.
Whether it’s a cultural thing or a necessity of the role, it seems like managers are expected to be first in and last out. I know you have a young family, so is it harder to striker a work/life balance as a manager than as a coach? I imagine management also takes up a lot more headspace than coaching.
Being a manager takes up a hell of a lot more headspace. I remember Mick McCarthy telling me at Cardiff that he would wake up at four in the morning, thinking about what subs to have on the bench. He would make a cup of tea and stay up. Until you’re in that position, you don’t know what it will be like, but now I know! Whatever role I end up in next, I now have more empathy for managers and what they have to do.
Any manager that says they’ve found a work/life balance is lying. You want to be the best you can be and get results, but also develop an infrastructure at the club, which is something we spent a lot of time on at Newport. So, we weren’t just developing the team ready for Saturday, but we were also trying to develop the club, so the medical and sport science department, performance analysis, the development and academy squads, while trying to bring every department together. That is time consuming, but you want to do what is best for the club and I don’t regret doing any of that. I was committed to doing that when I came to the club and I believe I did.
You managed to mount a promotion challenge in your first season, playing energetic, possession-based football and were as high as third in March, before eventually finishing 11th. On reflection, what went right and what went wrong during this period?
The intensity I like to train at maybe caught up with us in the end, hence some of the injuries we got and our home form coincided with that. Plus, we lost Ollie Cooper and couldn’t get Priestley Farquharson to the level we wanted, so those two were a big miss for us. You learn from it and figure out what you would do better next time. We wanted to play high, energetic football and press as often as we could, but maybe we could have tweaked it and come from a mid-block rather than a high-block, so that is something I would probably consider next time, if I’m coming in during the season. If you come in at the start and get a full pre-season, it’s a little bit different.
I know you have a principled approach to the way you want your team to play, but when things are not going well, is it hard to stick to your beliefs, over a more pragmatic, short-term approach? How do you weigh up long-term gains over immediate rewards in such a cutthroat industry?
You just hit the nail on the head. It’s hard to look long-term sometimes because of what can happen after a few bad results. It’s really hard to find a balance, but you’ve got to stick to what you believe in.
I know you had a health scare during your time in charge and had heart surgery in the summer. First and foremost, how are you? How was that picked up and did you have any concerns about returning to such a stressful, demanding role?
I’m fighting fit and probably the healthiest I’ve ever been, off the back of having a pacemaker fitted. I’m very, very fortunate to be here, so potentially becoming a manager saved my life. When the disappointment hit of parting ways with Newport, my wife said to me that if I wasn’t the manager, I might not be here.
How it came about was off the back of an LMA check-up, which you get every year. I went to London for a check-up and they found I had a complete AV heart block. A third degree, which is the worst you can get. You usually have symptoms with it, but I had none whatsoever, which is scary. From that point until I had the operation, so between 10th June and 25th July, you’re in danger of going into cardiac arrest.
I was monitored until what was the first week of the season and it was getting progressively worse over time, which I didn’t know until I had the operation. I was still in training, working as normal. I was cleared to do that and I still had no symptoms. I was lucky that I had one of the best cardiac surgeons, who I already knew from my time at Cardiff. He did the operation for me and the club doctor at Newport kept an eye on it.
I had the operation on the Monday and I was back in training on the Wednesday, which was probably a little bit too quick! I was so driven and wanted things to go well that I just wanted to get back to work. I wanted to give my all to the football club and what I was trying to achieve with the team. It was a scary period and when I reflect now, it was a life-changing operation because I might not have still been here, but I’m now the fittest I’ve ever been, so that’s the positive.
Getting sacked comes with the territory, but what have you learned from your time in charge at Newport? How did it differ from your expectations and what would you do differently next time?
I think the biggest thing to learn is to not get too caught up in the moment. When things don’t go so well and you live in the place where you work. I felt that we got better at that, but if there’s one thing I learned its to stick to your principles and beliefs. I think the training programme we delivered was very good and how we tried to create a high-performing environment in League Two. I look at the losses where we conceded very sloppy goals and it was never down to tactics or formation, it was due to individual errors and you can’t legislate for that.
What were you like when Newport won, compared to when they lost? Did you experience high high’s and low low’s, or did you manage to find a balance between the two?
Straight after the games, I loved celebrating with supporters. That was one of the best bits because I thrived off their passion and I think that was always clear to see. I was always told not to get too high or too low and that was a sound piece of advice, but its sometimes difficult. You try to remain level-headed and calm to try and get the results you feel you should be getting.
How do you find the training on the grass compared to managing on a match day?
The training is the easy bit! That’s my bread and butter. Putting structure together, delivering game plans and methodology, discussing tactics in meetings. The hardest bit is the games because its out of your control, to a degree. You hope the 11 lads you put on the pitch are prepared as best as possible to win the match. That time between 2:58 and 4:58 is a period where its totally different for a manager. I always remember asking Neil Warnock if he was OK at a quarter to three and he said “I will be at a quarter to five, son!”
Coming from a coaching background and now being a manager, is it hard to separate the two and does it end up being like doing two jobs and twice as much work?
You could look at it that way. You have to delegate as best you can and trust your staff. You want to coach and develop people because that’s your passion, but managing people is now a passion. I love seeing people do well and being a contributing factor in their career. That is my win. You want to get three points and celebrate with the supporters, but having an impact on someone’s career, that’s my win.
I’ve always wondered, when you’re a manager and you lose your job, what happens next? Everything is intense and dictated by a schedule, but what happens when that stops? Do you immediately think about going on holiday, or do you update your CV and start looking for work?
I’m very lucky that I have a very good support network. You realise that when something like this happens and you receive so many lovely messages and phone calls. I also had some really nice messages from Newport fans as well. You have to get into a routine and the first thing I did was join a gym. I spoke to a friend of mine who left a club and he said the hardest time is between 10:30 and 12:30, when you’re usually in training, so I make sure I’m at the gym during that time. Having that routine is really important. I’ve watched a lot of games, from all over the continent and locally. I’ve been to a few different clubs to watch them work, but the biggest thing has been to reflect and write that down. What I will do differently, but also what worked well because that’s important.
You’re no longer associated with Newport County, but are you still able to maintain an interest in their progress, or is it too soon and too raw for that, so close to leaving? Is it a clean break, or are you still watching on from afar?
That is a challenge because a lot of the players I brought in and I’m part of the reason why they joined the club. One of our key values was family and I treated them all like they’re my own, so I’ve still got a vested interest in individuals that are there. You want them to do well and have a successful career because I thrive off seeing people do well. I’ll always want Newport to do well. It’s where I’m from. I wish Graham and the chairman all the best.
How are you approaching the future? Are you looking to stay in management, or are you still open to coaching opportunities?
You’re always looking and I want to get back in as quick as I can. Where that is and what that looks like, I don’t know right now. I want to test and challenge myself, to be the best possible version of myself. Ultimately, I want to work at the highest level possible, however that looks. I’ve been proactive and there has been some opportunities that have come up, but whether or not we progress with those, I’m not sure right now. I’m excited for what the future looks like and I’ll be better for this experience. In a professional sense, I’m in a better position now than where I was 12 months ago when I left Cardiff.