The FAW were always stuffy and behind the times when I was growing up, which was reflected on the pitch. That couldn’t be further from the case now, with Welsh football riding the crest of a wave, on and off the pitch. These are unprecedented times and Noel Mooney is at the forefront, across all aspects. I’ve wanted to speak to him for a while and this is my longform chat with him, in the days following the Latvia win.
A point in Croatia, a home win in front of a full house and qualification for the Under-17’s. It’s been a good week!
It’s been a fantastic week! When you get a week like that, it’s really rewarding for everyone. The Under-17’s in particular, getting to their first European Championships in something like 42 years. That shows that, even though a couple of really big players have retired for us and that’s always really difficult, the group is always evolving. They’re qualifying for tournaments that even the guys that retired didn’t get to. We feel really buoyed that we have lots of young players coming from different areas and that the future of Welsh football is bright.
The job of a national association is to popularise the game of football. Latvia on a Tuesday night getting a full house. During the Nations League campaign, we played Netherlands on a Saturday night and we had four or five thousand empty seats, so that is a huge step for us to show that the game continues to get more popular. If you look at what you could call the Wales Away brand or concept, it was massively strengthened in Split and you will get more and more people wanting to be part of this special, social phenomenon. Wales away has become the thing to do and Croatia was a great backdrop, as Turkey will be. I expect we’ll have thousands of people wanting to go there and be part of what we’re doing, both at home and abroad.
You joined the FAW as Chief Executive, having had previous experience with UEFA as their Head of Strategic Development and also the League of Ireland, but did you have any previous experience of Wales? How have you found the country and the culture?
I’ve been blown away by the country and the people. My brother and sister were both born in Wales! One was born in Pembroke and the other in Monmouth, as the family were working across Wales to find their fortune in London, which they never managed! I moved back to Ireland when I was four, but my brother and sister were both born Welsh and that fondness has always been in my household.
I didn’t have a huge experience of Wales, but I had worked with the Welsh FA because part of my job at UEFA was to work with all the different associations. I didn’t realise how much I would fall in love with Welsh culture and the way of life here just suits me perfectly. There’s a lovely humility, with an affection for the language and the community. The Rhondda has its own culture, so has South Wales, West Wales and North Wales. I thought I might be here for a few years, but I feel much more comfortable about a longer-term future here because I don’t want to be anywhere else.
I like the people here and I think what we’re building here is really special. There have been things in the last decade that have been really special, but at grass roots level, there’s a whole pile of work to be done in the next few years. I feel we’re taking all the right steps, and some of them are tough, but the key thing is that we’re putting things in place, internationally and domestically, to sustain long-term growth in Wales.
Growing up, the FAW always felt rather stuffy and out of touch, but as recently documented in the BBC series Together Stronger, that has all changed in the last decade or so. Wales have been riding the crest of a wave and these are pretty much unprecedented times. What were your first impressions of the FAW and the health of Welsh football in general?
Obviously, there had been quite some success at the men’s international level and they were starting to get the women’s national team support services in place. I didn’t feel there was enough focus on the grassroots or domestic game, from a financial or resource perspective. Part of my job has been to build upon the success and make us better, throughout the age groups. The fact that we’re qualifying for youth tournaments now is a big step for us. We knew that we were good at coaching education, but we’re still working hard to get better. We’ve built a whole high-performance strategy since I arrived that is allowing us to get better, but the weak areas; both domestic and grassroots, we’ve put a huge amount of work into that. We’ve also made some big governance changes that have allowed us to be a real leading association.
I get worried about the small stuff I’m facing, and the daily challenges will always be there, but from a strategic standpoint, these are great days. There’s no impediment to our growth, apart from the obvious ones, like that fact that we don’t have 70 or 80 million people or huge brands, but we do have huge interest because of how we engage with people. What we have become very good at is understanding how to connect to people. Whether that’s Yma o Hyd or the video we made for the World Cup. That went beyond a social connection and we wanted to show that we can be very successful when we put our minds to it.
Making a World Cup finals takes a huge amount of work, between a lot of people. We’ve come from a past that is not all sweetness and light, but that grittiness in the team to grind out results comes from the country’s past. With the World Cup video, I think we showed we think beyond the football pitch, about social issues, history, culture and identity. I think we’ve become the face of a modern, progressive, agile Cymru, that sits at the top table. I also think we’ve connected very well with society. We work very well with the government, across all parties because we’re apolitical, to show a maturity in the way we represent Wales on the world stage and domestically.
On a day-to-day basis, what does the role consist of? What occupies most of your attention and focus?
My main focus is a strategy laid out called Our Wales, which has six pillars. The first is Sustainable Association of the Future, which is basically our governance and how we operate. We’ve just done a review of the six area associations, to make sure they’re agile and sustainable strategy is part of that. We have a new sustainability strategy called Cymru Wellbeing in the World, which is how we grow the game in a way that is good for the environment.
The second is Wales on the World Stage. We’re putting a bid together for Euro 2028, the 2026 Under-19 European Championships for north Wales and Laura McAllister is joining the board of UEFA in Lisbon next week. Playing in a World Cup is a very good way of putting our name out there on a world stage. We’ve got an international coaching conference in May, where Warren Gatland and Carlo Ancelotti will present. Our world-class coaching education programmes have brought through the likes of Mikel Arteta, Thierry Henry and Roberto Martinez.
The third pillar is about growing participation across Wales, getting to 120,000 registered players. In the last week, we’ve hired seven grass roots club development officers, who have the job of making sure that every one of our 950 clubs in Wales has a clear plan for how they can grow, provide new facilities and bring in volunteers. It’s a big step that we didn’t have before and we’re investing in that. High performance is making sure that we have teams, both male and female, that can perform at a world-class level. Ensuring equal pay was a big step for us, to show support for the women’s team and gender parity. Investing to make sure players have everything they need in the background, like psychology and nutrition, in order to perform at the highest level.
We’ve set up the Cymru Football Foundation, where we’ve invested millions of pounds with the governments of both the UK and Wales, to invest in facilities for grassroots football and build pitches. The last one is Workforce, to make sure we have the courses and programmes you need. Whether you want to be grass roots administrator or a pro licence coach, in order to reach your full potential. We have a culture and values which are respect, excellence and family, to make sure that our staff are growing and delivering the values, so that people inside and outside the organisation can see that the FAW are a humble, kind, positive organisation, that grows football. My focus is on delivering this strategy in a financially efficient way and I report to the board.
There has always been a battle between football and rugby in Wales, with rugby usually coming out on top. There are lots of reasons for this, whether cultural, the success of the respective national teams or schools tending to favour rugby. How does the FAW view competing with rugby?
It’s interesting to me because I’m not from Wales and never thought much about it. I like rugby myself and come from Ireland where rugby is growing and they’re the number one team in the world now. What you find is that football has far greater popularity and participation everywhere because it’s a global sport. Rugby is not global yet and not that many countries play. With football, the competition is much higher, so for us to get to a World Cup is a huge achievement in itself.
It’s easier to be a success in rugby because a lot less people are playing it, but Wales has been synonymous with rugby for years. Living in South Wales, there’s certainly a rugby DNA you feel, but football is a global phenomenon and that makes it more difficult to be successful. We now have our governance correct and have made huge strides as an organisation. That allows us to make progressive decisions and we have to remain humble, but dynamic to ensure we continue to be successful in the future.
The Together Stronger movement has been a great success and the build up to the World Cup created a real sense of community. You have also been very visible and engaging on social media since taking charge, which has certainly been a contributing factor. Was that a conscious decision and something you felt was necessary, or have you always engaged in that way?
I’ve always engaged in that way. I’m a very open person and like to talk about what we’re trying to do. It’s something that I think is important and anyone can ask me whatever they want, whenever they want. There doesn’t need to be a mystery to us because we’re very clear in what we’re trying to do. You can read our strategy and look at our finances. We make decisions for the right reasons, all of the time. It’s also very good feedback. Some of my contributions in meetings are often trends or clear thinking from social media. We’re all now completely exposed because of social media and if people feel we’re doing something wrong or can do something better, I’m delighted to put it forward as a proposition.
The World Cup was both a huge achievement and ultimately a disappointment. There seems to be a bit of a generational divide in terms of how the performance was viewed. For younger fans, who only really know Wales to be successful, there was greater frustration, but for older supporters, they recognise that getting there was the real achievement and appreciate this degree of success, after decades of disappointment. How was the World Cup performance, on and off the pitch, viewed by the FAW?
Off the pitch, it was absolutely fantastic. We did everything we could and worked really well with Team Cymru and all our stakeholders. We were really happy with Gwyl Cymru, which was our celebration of Welsh culture and art, the giant bucket hats, the World Cup song. We were really happy overall, but we didn’t deliver on the pitch in the way we had hoped. We all recognise what went well to get us there, which was a very significant achievement. The second half against USA was fantastic, but we couldn’t break down Iran, while the first half against England was good, but the second half wasn’t. It was a mixed bag, but we didn’t deliver the sporting objectives we had. That said, we’re now top of our European Championship group after a draw in Croatia and a win at home to Latvia. A full house on a Tuesday night demonstrates that Rob and the team still connect with the public and there is a confidence that this group will qualify for Euro 2024. There’s also an optimism that if we do make it to Germany, we’ll probably have 30,000 fans out there.
There’s a younger group coming through, with the likes of Brennan Johnson and Luke Harris, very mobile, pacy players, who can bring a freshness. If you also look at the Under-17’s that have just qualified for Hungary, if we get to host Euro 2028 in Cardiff, and we’ll know if we’ll be hosting in October, there’s a group that will be 22 and 23, that could be playing in front of 75,000. It’s exciting times and the World Cup was fabulous for us in terms of legacy, generating millions of pounds for grassroots facilities across the country, but next time we go, we want to make sure that we deliver on the pitch and make people even prouder.
I wanted to ask about international salaries and bonuses because it is an area of international football that is not really common knowledge. Are players paid to represent their country and do they receive bonuses for tournament qualification? How does it all work?
Players get a tiny fee for playing for their country. Pretty much their expenses really. If you get to a tournament, most countries have a similar system, where a third goes into the development of the sport, a third goes toward the preparation for the tournament and the rest goes to the players. Its very small for some, compared to what they earn at their clubs and a share of any prize money. Our players, both male and female, are wonderful to deal with and our move to equal pay for both was the result of close consultation.
A lot of the players don’t collect the money and it goes straight to charity and there’s also a player pot that gets donated to charity, but that’s something they do privately. You also have to remember that some of our players in the past have played at a lower level where they earn far less, the women too, so an extra few quid may be useful if you’re saving for a house, a car or further education.
A few international countries have changed their names recently and there appears to be an appetite amongst some for Wales to instead be referred to as Cymru. Is this something the Welsh FA are aware of and is there any intention for this to happen in the foreseeable future?
We’ve said recently that we would always debate these issues. When we play on S4C, we’re called Cymru and we wear Cymru on our jackets. When we play internationally, other countries use their preferred national name, like Spain using Espana. I think we’re in a very good place because people interchange, use both and they sit together very neatly. At our matches, people chant Wales, but others are proud that we refer to ourselves as Cymru.
We respect that we have two languages and use both. I hear people in the corridors here often speaking Welsh, flicking between the two and I think that’s how we should be. We want to be an inclusive, open organisation that respects both. If you want to change your name, you have to do so at a United Nations level, so you’re essentially changing the name of the country and then you can do the same with UEFA.
Looking to the future. Robert Page was given a deserved new contract ahead of the World Cup. Some questioned the timing and the duration of the deal though. How have the FAW appraised his performance in the role and how did you decide on the duration of his contract, which is for two more tournament cycles?
Rob had been the interim manager for quite a long period. He had gone to a Euro’s and was going to a World Cup, so he’s now been to more tournaments than any other manager in Welsh history. He had also managed an underage team, so a lot of the younger players grew up with him in some respects. We also noted that the senior players really seem to respect him and we felt he was a modern, progressive coach. He also has the values of the FAW, which is really important for us.
We wouldn’t want to spend big money to bring in a coach that might have a great track record, but may not buy into our ethos. So, he’s a very good fit for us and he also earned it by getting us to a World Cup. We have a lot of technical analysis here and we saw enough to give him a good contract, which we were happy to give him. In terms of the duration, we don’t believe in short-termism and we like to build for the longer term. We felt, with the younger players coming through, that he deserved four years and we were very comfortable with that.
We want to show loyalty to our managers and for that reason, we gave Gemma Grainger a contact extension when she wasn’t really looking for one. She hasn’t qualified for a major tournament yet, but we know she’s on the right track. We saw after the World Cup that Rob made significant changes to his backroom team, to bring a new freshness. We’re very comfortable in our relationship with him, he’s a very proud Welshman and I believe his whole staff is now Welsh, possibly by accident more than by design. It’s great that those who come in feel that connection with Wales and want to be successful. We feel Rob is the right fit for us and we’re happy with that decision.
Wales have attracted huge crowds in recent years and whenever that happens, there is always the suggestion of moving games to the Principality Stadium. Cardiff City Stadium has been a source of strength and there is very little appetite for a move amongst supporters, but it is noticeable that the FAW appears to be run more like a business these days. How do you weigh up the needs of the business versus the needs of supporters, or even players?
We try to put the needs of the players and the supporters first. We’re very comfortable at Cardiff City Stadium, but we would like to take the team around the country a little more. To Swansea and Wrexham, when we can. CCS has become our home and fortress. We’ve qualified for tournaments there and celebrated great moments with supporters and the Red Wall. If you move, you have to reconfigure everything and that can damage the connection between the supporters and the players. I find it very hard to see us not having CCS as our home for a very long time and if we continue to grow, the demand will get stronger to build up the two ends of the stadium, rather than play elsewhere. Our culture is there, so I don’t see an alternative to playing there.
How do you decide upon the price of match tickets? They’re currently fairly competitively priced, but have been cheaper in the recent past. I’ve seen attendances peak with a full Millennium Stadium and trough with very few rattling around the Cardiff City Stadium. It has been steady for a while, but it’s dependant on so many factors and can quickly change. With a cost of living crisis and key players retiring, is that something that is being monitored and under consideration?
Football is a working-class sport and we have to always reflect that. Trying to get the balance right, making the national team accessible to everybody, while we also have enough to fund new pitches and teams is a difficult balance. If we do anything in terms of ticket pricing, we consult supporters as best we can and explain where that money is going. Our ethos is to keep prices at a level where people can afford to go to our matches and as many people as possible feel part of the journey we’re on. We’re very proud of our ticket pricing and we want to see people enjoying the great times in Welsh football together, without financial stress.
It’s a bit of a crossroads for the team with the retirements of both Gareth Bale and Joe Allen. Are there any plans to keep them in and around the set-up, in some capacity, like you’ve done recently with Chris Gunter?
Well, Joe is still playing for Swansea, so his current focus is on that, but we will definitely have the conversation on whether he wants a job in Welsh football and we very much look forward to it. We’re in regular contact with him and he’s part of the furniture here, so we’ll figure that out together over the next few months. Gareth will always be a central part of Welsh football. They’re all very close and come here on their down time, so we have a very comfortable relationship with all of them. It’s like one big family. There is a plan to talk to Gareth soon and I know he’s already spoken to Rob about what a future role might look like. He was over for the match, but I didn’t see him. We’ll sit together very soon and see what he would like to do with the FAW. I have no doubt we’ll agree something and what a great person to have in our family.
We’ve touched on some of this already, but to finish up, what are your hopes for the future, both short and long term? What changes are you looking to make and are you hoping to remain in the role for the foreseeable future?
For us, international success is important, but we need to have a stronger domestic game. Pretty soon we’ll be announcing a new strategy for the Premier Division, the women’s leagues are developing very quickly and we’ve hired a lot of people in grassroots, with a lot of funding in place. We want all 950 clubs in Wales to have a clear plan and for the FAW to support them. We want to keep reforming our governance to ensure we’re agile, modern and progressive, which we have been for a long time and want to continue that in the future.
We want to continue to build facilities. We’ve already got three headquarters, but want to keep improving them and also make sure that the grassroots clubs and schools have facilities so that people can play football in good conditions. Sustainability is very important to us and we want to be part of the social discussion with regards to Wales being a forward-thinking nation. A modern, progressive country that is successful both domestically and internationally. If we deliver our strategy, which is Our Wales and encapsulates all of this, then I’ll be very happy to hand over the baton and leave Welsh football in a much better condition than when I found it. As a world-leading football nation, whether coaching education, grassroots or the national team, for both men and women.